palo alto airport noise abatement

That acknowledgment has been made many, many times - in this thread and many others. Not their problem. Peter Carpenter, Special Pubs Funny that there is only 1 way to fly that flight, so much for Nextgen. "What prevents the plane from being lower over Atherton to be "in place" fro the Dumbarton Bridge?" Peter Carpenter, A whole host and litany of resistance to hearing or helping solve the problem that were unproductive and designed to dismiss the issue. If it were routed to cross the shoreline any further North then it would have to be lower over a populated area. The article is about people's qualitative perceptions of change in a place over time, based on those people's stories. 300 foot differential is harassment. The flight was somewhat earlier than usual tonight. pepperkat, [Portion removed. Most cross 101 at about 4000 ft., 200 kts, and vertical speed of ~ -1200 ft/min, then slow down and flatten out after the last turn to SFO. Its efforts on a regional level have also run into political hurdles. Why does there need to be an alarmist response to canceling 1 night flight? It is interesting that every time actual data is posted on this thread the only response is to attempt to discredit the source of that data rather than dealing with the data. There are no mysteries here - we can all see where the planes are. TheSixFifty.com Check out this site, Nextgennoise.org Web Link Planes cross 101 anywhere from Redwood City to Mtn View, but the vast majority hit that MENLO beacon by the Dumbarton Bridge. Theyve been dumping planes and routes overPalo Alto since NEXTGEN (2016).How many more years will it take to solve the dumping of SFOs noise, fine particle pollution and possible safety issues with so many routes all converging over Palo Alto? Here's a link to the law: Web Link Further, the member from Menlo Park made a friendly amendment to address some of the concerns. Or you can down load a tracking tool made by Bruel & Kjaer which shows all air traffic in the vicinity including PAO and San Carlos. All it had to do was veer east over the bridge and it would be fine." How to Get Involved Flight Trackers Library Meetings & Events FAQs Q - Why are so many aircraft flying low and loud over Palo Alto? The Almanac What is the db of the aircaft flying over PA? Anyway, I was only pointing to this fact, that noise sharing is possible. Its efforts on a regional level have also run into political hurdles. Resident 3 - I am looking at the web track to resolve a specific question - like who is the fool that is rolling over at 4:22 in the AM - I am going to report that plane. Planes later in the day were making a straight shot in - crossing at 101 and 84 - bridge or not - optional - and then making the straight shot in to SFO. Special Pubs by at low altitude and woke me up. Web Link. I guess I was too absorbed to notice any of them. If you are using the SFO or SJC Trackers then they are selecting the flights specific to their airport. The plane enters the area but travels south then turns north when north is the way to SFO. Need to get that data from SFO. Those planes come in over Palo Alto. Never once about airplane noise. Peter Carpenter, 9, for example, prohibits Airport operators from discriminat[ing] unjustly between categories and classes of aircraft. The FAA, which would normally enforce the Grant Assurances by, among other mechanisms, withholding Federal funds, or even clawing back funds already allocated, has apparently agreed that East Hamptons Grant Assurance obligations expired in 2014. This is my 9th comment. Grant Assurance No. Web Link If you're flying on the klm/delta/air france network there could be a handful to a dozen alternatives to get you . P.S. Strange that Rick saw what was going on but failed to mention that the plane dragged itself across PA to Mountain View whining and moaning the whole way. "If that is the best alternative that Resident 3 can come up with then I suggest that the present routing is the best possible alternative." Hope the police are waiting for the small plane. Thanks to you all, I have a better idea where I stand and what's at stake. A step towards a more compassionate world happens when one cares about the feelings and needs of others more than their bank account. Bru, I think it was 2:19am last night and it was this fool from LAX flying at 3,900ft over crescent park. June 9, 2021. Resident 3 - Re Public Health policy expertise, I served as the Executive Director of the Stanford University Medical Center, on the Dean's Advisory Board at UC Berkeley School of Public Health, on various Institute of Medicine Committees, as a Visiting Scholar at Stanford's Center for Biomedical Ethics and as Chair of the American Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR). Can you please share what law and what international treaty says that "any curfew has to apply across the board not just to flights which bother one small community"? I had my suspicion about why there is no cumulative data, and why people suggest to spend time on Web Trak - it's much easier to play mirror games with it. Is the noise worse in Palo Alto than elsewhere? The pilot dials it in on the instrument panel before take-off. It is depicted by thick blue lines in concentric circles that go out to as far as 30 nautical miles from SFO airport. Bridge is not an issue. There is a huge number of moving parts over your head, over your house and property, that you have no control over. If this were Millbrae or Daly City it would be one thing but most Palo Altans should have nary a complaint to lodge. Two new bills aim to lower volume on airplane noise No, What pepperkat called for was some sort of opinion pool on noise perception - that is not the FAA's job. [Portion removed; off topic.]. The flight UAL396, HNL to SFO is using different routes for different times of day. Yes, noise monitors will be necessary to deal with this issue. The plane is an old, clumsy piece of junk that should not be out there. SFO has 2 types of flight to monitor - Arrivals - and Departures. Palo Alto also needs to ensure its own "noise house" is clean! Sadly, this approach to characterizing the problem has been adroitly ignored by everyone up and down the levels of bureaucracy each time it has been suggested. BDEGA ONE (RNAV) download (219KB) "Does Surf Air fly anonymously?" Whats needed is a positive tracking system that monitors the Palo Alto airport, recording the time, day, transponder number, tail code (from transponder number), height of aircraft over Palo Alto, East Palo Alto, Stanford, Menlo Park (at least). AirNav: KPAO - Palo Alto Airport If your concern is with operations at one of the following airports, please use their noise hotline . SFO is located in San Mateo though and San Mateo - SFO's landlord - is host to the SFO Roundtable which has member cities from San Francisco and San Mateo. I have no idea if the city has corrected the situation. There are hundreds of night time flights into SFO. I predict that with accurate noise data for Palo Alto it will no longer be possible to claim that Palo Alto is being disproportionately impacted. From reading these posts, it is apparent that some are suffering in response to the aircraft noise. A lot of them crash. a clear win-win for all concerned except that it cost the airline a bit more for the slight deviation in terms of added fuel. YES - and the track shows it over Palo Alto - did you even look at what I posted?????? There aren't that many people who need absolute anonymity so there must be other reasons they have requested to be anonymous. A real solution would be to have some monitoring stations that post data to a web page somewhere and fines for those place that exceed a certain noise level. And their 757 from Kahului at 4:33 was at 7000 mostly over Mountain View. SFO could certainly enact a night time curfew - and it would then cease to be a viable international airport which would have huge negative economic consequences for the entire Bay area. Rules of the game change based on time of day? Place a Legal Notice Or visit your optometrist. Blogs For those that do, are you actually concerned about the sensitivities of your neighbors down below while you are enjoying a glass of champagne? TownSquare You quoted a US law and an international treaty, why not reference it? VOR RWY 19L download (329KB) RNAV (GPS) RWY 10L download (230KB) It's always "so easy" but if it's so easy why not just post the tally. - no need to ask people in Chicago, just ask the people in Redwood Shores, Burlingame and Belmont. Julie - I understand and respect the fact that you and others object to the noise created by airplanes - sensitivity to noise is a personal and subjective matter. Or maybe you are suggesting the costly part is City of Palo Alto gaining access to the streaming data, recording it, and making it presentable. Like many of the trucks that go on the highways they could use a "How Am I doing?" I think this should be off limits whoever it is, I looked at the SFO arrival traffic on Webtrak during the busy hour from 6:00 to 7:00 PM this evening (Tuesday) and was surprised to see that 18 of the 19 flights on the peninsula side crossed 101 north of University Avenue, mostly near Willow Road, and were miles west of the Dumbarton Bridge before getting over the bay. Which is why any of the rules that the airlines and Congress have written are suspect. Because of the small square foot miles. I was up all night studying and this seemed to be one of our quieter nights, maybe because of the thick fog layer. They are systematically moving their air traffic away from the City and County of San Francisco to Palo Alto and other Santa Clara County locales. Here is a huge amount of data on Bay Area airplane traffic patterns: The outer shelf for the C airspace extends from 5 to a 10 nautical mile radius, with standard vertical limits from 1500 to 4000 feet AGL. That is what you would see on a PAO flight or San Carlos flight. At a minimum, having these two datasets would provide everyone with the data needed to understand the noise contributions of planes over Palo Alto, as well as having hard data about planes that are flying at too low an altitude into/out of the Palo Alto Airport. These restrictions play a vital role in aircraft departures, in turn influencing noise abatement procedures for the Palo Alto Airport. All rights reserved. Doesn't Sky Posse have some dB meters to loan out? The flights given other codes may display as "Tail Number" and/or "Flight ID". Nothing's perfect. A noise control issue between friends? And don't even start with quieter planes. What weight are you talking about? Class D airspace has a standard radius of 4 nautical miles, with standard vertical limits from the surface to 2500 feet AGL. When WebTrak just says Beacon 3576, that says nothing about whether or not it's on a flight plan. sorry pepperkat, I actually don't know is you are a she or a he, no matter. Sound levels (technically sound pressures) decrease by the inverse square of the distance from the source so ground level sound from an an airplane at 4000 ft is only 25% of the ground level sound from an airplane at 2000 ft.. Very, very few SFO planes pass anywhere near Atherton. Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed. I have repeatedly stated that some people in Palo Alto are bothered by the airplane noise - that is not the issue. Careful what you wish for - accurate noise monitoring in Palo Alto will show that the total ground level airplane noise level in Palo Alto is lower than it is in communities closer to SFO. (See SFO_Palo_Alto_Short_Term_Noise_Report_2021, available online.) Obviously flight patterns can change. Web Link. The main issue is volume of flights, and concentrated paths. Since that is above the airport's minimum connection time of 50 mins for that type of connection and since airlines don't plan things which structurally saddle them with passengers needing to be rescheduled, you'd make that connection probably 98 times out of 100 would be my guess. It is only when the costs are borne disproportionately or the costs become unbearable to society as a whole that there is justification for reducing those costs by reducing the benefits. We assume that the pilots are trained but have seen very strange activity. 7450 Arroyo Crossing Pkwy Suite 100 Las Vegas, Nevada 89113, US The FAA Airport Noise Program | Federal Aviation Administration As a matter of policy I think this is irresponsible. In my ten years as Chair of the PAO JCRC (1999-2009) I personally met with or talked to EVERY single person who submitted a PAO noise complaint and by working directly with individual pilots and with the FAA tower staff I was able to resolve most of those issues. But I agree the FAA's job is to not to do an opinion pool of noise perceptions. Posted by Peter Carpenter and was trying to mask it's location on the tracker. " Palo Alto city Council needs to bring Molly Stump ( city attorney) into this equation and use any legal means they have in their toolbox to push back FAA rules/regulations and SFO. The law that makes curfews "illegal" is actually called a "Noise and Capacity Act" (they've been "duped" before). See, for example, the FAA's "Implications of Environmental Requirements for NextGen," in which the agency asserts that creating highly concentrated "precise navigation" flight paths would "reduce fuel burn/emissions and noise exposure" overall by increasing noise exposure and affecting surface air quality concentrations "in some areas." Looks like a "sound" air traffic policy to me. WHY do they send the night flights over highly populated areas. All rights reserved. Once you get familiar with the tools that are already there then you have the same impact as everyone else - you another voter in the complaint war. Slightly smaller than a 737. Palo Alto claims it was not informed of the San Francisco International Airport's proposal for new landing approaches, which was recently submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration. Embarcadero Media It's actually called a Noise and Capacity act. Neither the pilots or the passengers in these planes are interested in becoming dive bombers. STLER ONE (RNAV) download (187KB) Is there any hope of curbing the noise? Even personal planes going out of PAO have that type of information. ILS OR LOC RWY 28R download (413KB) I wonder if these planes could cross 101 higher, say at 5000 ft instead of 4000 ft. They told me the next morning they had a hard time sleeping because of the noise from the airplanes. A Distraction taken away from Palo Alto's irritating Mountain View Voice Health impacts from noise are not just "subjective." "2. At an April 25 community meeting facilitated by SFO, Vice Mayor Lydia Kou claimed that airport officials have failed to consider the city's requests for permanent noise monitoring and to solicit its feedback before moving forward with proposed reforms. Volume and concentration. "Schiphol flights to be limited to 11% below 2019 levels to cut noise, emissions"

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